This will likely be the last of my How-to series. However, if you have any how-to questions, I'm always happy to share my ideas. Just send me an email or call me.
Support your missionary. When a missionary asks for support, most pastors and church members bristle... after all, the assumption is that he is asking for money.
While money is a blessing, and it affords you the ability to acquire tools to enhance your outreach and discipleship efforts, it is not the end all when it comes to missionary support.
Few things are worse than being on a mission field with a sponsoring church that is unaware of his efforts, successes and failures, no matter how in-depth the reporting. Few things are worse than having to leave the field to visit the sponsoring church to beg for a basic ministry necessity. Few things are worse than having to explain the scope of your work to the sponsor over and over again.
I am very blessed. Rocky Springs is very solidly behind the work in Brownwood, and they demonstrate this every single time a Brownwood-related matter comes up for a vote. It is a blessing to know that my strongest advocates are also active members of my sponsoring church. Rocky Springs is a good example of what a sponsoring church should do.
I have before stated that a church need not be wealthy financially to sponsor a missionary. While I still hold to that statement, a sponsoring church MUST have a committment to see that the missionary has the tools he needs for the work set out before him. If the sponsoring church has the ways and means to supply those tools, they should. If they sponsoring church does not have the finances to provide those tools, then they should aid the missionary in raising the support from sister churches. It is perfectly acceptable for a church to turn to sister churches for help in carrying out the Great Commission.
This is another way I am blessed by Rocky Springs. The Old Cherokee Association (Rocky's local association) is not going to have a mission rally without Bro. Charles Swilling or Bro. Jim Slocumb giving a Brownwood report and asking for support.
More important than financial support, however, is the issue of emotional and prayer support. The mission field can be very discouraging (and that's just Brownwood. I can only imagine what our brethren in France, Africa, Ukraine and Thailand are feeling). A missionary needs to know that the sponsoring church understands the importance of the mission work, is behind the work, and that they are there for moral support.
How can a sponsor show that support? Easy. Call the missionary and offer words of encouragement and thanks. Tell him that someone spoke on his behalf in Sunday School, Send him email and letters, and maybe even a gift package... and don't forget his wife and kids. All too often, they make the biggest sacrifices.
And last but not least, don't fall into this mentality that a mission work is a drain on church finances and resources. That mentality will lead to bitter feelings between missionary and sponsoring church. God blesses our church finances for the sole purpose of carrying out his work. That work is mission work, both local and beyond.
Thank you for your prayers and support. There have been hard times in Brownwood, but not many... and with your support and encouragement, they never seem all that bad. In fact, these are the best days of my ministry. Thank you so much.
God uses life's circumstances to transform us into the persons He intended on us being. Here's my journey...
Showing posts with label How-to Thursday. Show all posts
Showing posts with label How-to Thursday. Show all posts
Friday, September 4, 2009
Thursday, August 20, 2009
How-To Thursday: Keeping it Real
As a radio ad executive, I have to be completely sold on the value of my station if I'm going to be effective at selling radio campaigns. I also have to be creative... but I definitely have to be sold on my station's value.
In the same way, if I am going to be a successful evangelist, I must be completely sold out for the Gospel. I have to be totally convinced that it is true, that Jesus died for my sins on the cross, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. If the Gospel is not real to me, or if I fail to see how it has totally changed and revolutionized my life, I'll be unable to present it with any passion and will have a hard time convincing people to believe it.
The problem that the unchurched have with church is not the hymns, the preaching, the "early" Sunday morning service at 11 a.m., the clothing, the "Baptist" on the sign, or even the moral lifestyle. The problem the unchurched have with church is that they perceive it is full of fake people, and the programs, presentation and dynamic services merely mask the fact that they are "experiencing" a fake celebration. They perceive church as fake.
To a degree, this can't be controlled. Church members will fall, people will sin publicly, others will intentionally inflict harm on others' feelings and people will get turned off. However, as a church planter or missionary, you can control whether you are fake, or whether you are real.
What's your motivation for being on the field. Are you there to build a big, strong vibrant church with awesome praise and worship services with a dynamic youth program? Do you dream of a tech-savvy church that utilizes all the latest trends in evangelism and church planting? Do you want to be on the cutting edge of societal evolution? Do you want to show the rest of the association how it's done?
If so, you are in danger of being fake. I have never seen a praise chorus, powerpoint screen, or wind ensemble lead a single soul to Christ. (Conversely, I've never seen a Heavenly Highway Hymnal lead anyone to Christ either.) If you have gone to the field to start another "next biggest thing" organization (commonly referred to as a church), then you are just adding another problem to a field that is likely already littered with "church-growth-driven" casualties.
People need what's real, and what's real is the Gospel. If the fact that Christ paid for your sins on the cross has really changed your life, if you were truly transformed by your salvation experience, then let that be what drives you. Use your passion for Christ to do evangelism. The church that grows out of that will be the church that your mission field needed most.
Don't be program-driven. Be Gospel-driven. Be real, then keep it real. Peace out!
Hebrews 10:23 - Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
In the same way, if I am going to be a successful evangelist, I must be completely sold out for the Gospel. I have to be totally convinced that it is true, that Jesus died for my sins on the cross, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures. If the Gospel is not real to me, or if I fail to see how it has totally changed and revolutionized my life, I'll be unable to present it with any passion and will have a hard time convincing people to believe it.
The problem that the unchurched have with church is not the hymns, the preaching, the "early" Sunday morning service at 11 a.m., the clothing, the "Baptist" on the sign, or even the moral lifestyle. The problem the unchurched have with church is that they perceive it is full of fake people, and the programs, presentation and dynamic services merely mask the fact that they are "experiencing" a fake celebration. They perceive church as fake.
To a degree, this can't be controlled. Church members will fall, people will sin publicly, others will intentionally inflict harm on others' feelings and people will get turned off. However, as a church planter or missionary, you can control whether you are fake, or whether you are real.
What's your motivation for being on the field. Are you there to build a big, strong vibrant church with awesome praise and worship services with a dynamic youth program? Do you dream of a tech-savvy church that utilizes all the latest trends in evangelism and church planting? Do you want to be on the cutting edge of societal evolution? Do you want to show the rest of the association how it's done?
If so, you are in danger of being fake. I have never seen a praise chorus, powerpoint screen, or wind ensemble lead a single soul to Christ. (Conversely, I've never seen a Heavenly Highway Hymnal lead anyone to Christ either.) If you have gone to the field to start another "next biggest thing" organization (commonly referred to as a church), then you are just adding another problem to a field that is likely already littered with "church-growth-driven" casualties.
People need what's real, and what's real is the Gospel. If the fact that Christ paid for your sins on the cross has really changed your life, if you were truly transformed by your salvation experience, then let that be what drives you. Use your passion for Christ to do evangelism. The church that grows out of that will be the church that your mission field needed most.
Don't be program-driven. Be Gospel-driven. Be real, then keep it real. Peace out!
Hebrews 10:23 - Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Thursday, August 13, 2009
How-To Thursday: Arriving at the Field, or Getting Started
Bear in mind that my frame of reference is in state/interstate missions... so the following will not likely apply to a foreign mission field, with the possible exceptions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and California.
The fanfare of deputation and associational meetings does not last forever. Those who loved you and supported you along the way will eventually help you unload the U-Haul... but then the U-Haul drives away, leaving your entire life in boxes in a house that looked much larger empty. You're there alone (or with your family, if you are married).
Events affect people differently. For me, this time was marked by fear. The moment we were settled into the house, the supporters had returned to East Texas, and there were no more deputation visits-only the work ahead of us, nervousness engulfed my soul. Here, I had spent seven months sharing my call to Brownwood and presenting my plan of action, and now, I had to put action behind those words. The one question that echoed so loudly in my mind that I could hear little else was, "Where do I start?"
"I'll invite people to church." (I have no church).
"I'll talk to my friends." (I don't know anyone here).
"I'll rent a building and hold services." (I have no congregation).
Then, this exchange happens...
(phone rings)
"Hey brother, how many did you have your first Sunday in Brownwood?"
"Five."
"Just your family, huh?"
"Yep."
"Well, don't worry, mission work takes time."
When you arrive at your mission field, you will feel a mixture of emotions. I can't tell you what those emotions will be because all people are different. I will tell you this. Don't fear failure in the first month. Don't be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task at hand. Don't be afraid to start, but don't feel pressured to start the second the U-Haul drives away either.
Feel free to go on to bed and get a good night's sleep that first night. In the morning, if you don't already have to report to a job, feel free to just go into town and take it in. Go to Walmart. Go to the mall. Eat out a couple of meals. Maybe even go to the movies. Put yourself in as many public places as possible over the first few days. This accomplishes a few things.
First, you will begin to get a better feel for the culture of the town. That mall might have seemed like an economic hub during your survey trips, but having spent some time there now, you might notice that it is more of a teen hangout, or a tourist destination than a fishing hole to reach the people of the town. You will find out which establishments the townspeople are passionate about. You will also get a better idea of how they think. And don't think just because you are doing mission work in your home state, or even your home area that you know the culture. You don't. Brownwood and Coleman are only 35 miles apart (spitting distance by West Texas standards), and they are as different as night and day.
The second thing this accomplishes is it breaks the ice for you. You get to relax and enjoy your new life in this new town for a little while. It's okay to do so. You have about three to fifteen years of hard labor ahead of you. Take time and smell the roses.
My approach to this is not unique. In his book, "Gleanings from the Field, or Things I Learned as a First Time Missionary," Jack Spencer, current ABA missionary to Clovis, New Mexico, also advised taking time to acclamate yourself to your new field, and to rest up. I highly recommend "Gleanings" to any prospective missionary. Bro. Spencer shares his experiences in mission work in Maryland, and gives straight forward advice on all the things the new church planting books are too cool to address.
Anyway, back on topic. After a reasonable time of acclamation, get started. I recommend starting by meeting your neighbors and befriending them. (Which is why I also recommend living in town, in a neighborhood or apartment community as opposed to buying a 365 acre ranch). Be open and honest about who you are, and what you are doing, but let it come up naturally. Be a friend. Who knows, you might be meeting your first congregants. From there, continue to make friends and connections, and combine your evangelism approach. This is where having a job comes in handy, but is not a necessity.
There is much debate about street evangelism vs. relationship evangelism vs. servant evangelism. All three have their advantages and disadvantages. Use a comprehensive approach to your field which incorporates all three. Make friends and do relationship evangelism. Go door-to-door and use street evangelism, and if someone needs help, then servant evangelism becomes profitable. And host Bible studies. You need a way to disciple those you evangelize.
If this comes together for you the way it did for me, you'll see a core group emerge in a matter of months, not years. You'll see people being drawn together by the Lord, their common experiences and their friendships. It's a beautiful thing.
Whatever you do on the field, do things the way God leads you to. The conditions on the field and his direction might very well open the door for you to use a completely different approach than I did. However, if you find yourself on the field that first day saying, "Where do I start?" then give this method a try. It worked well for me.
The fanfare of deputation and associational meetings does not last forever. Those who loved you and supported you along the way will eventually help you unload the U-Haul... but then the U-Haul drives away, leaving your entire life in boxes in a house that looked much larger empty. You're there alone (or with your family, if you are married).
Events affect people differently. For me, this time was marked by fear. The moment we were settled into the house, the supporters had returned to East Texas, and there were no more deputation visits-only the work ahead of us, nervousness engulfed my soul. Here, I had spent seven months sharing my call to Brownwood and presenting my plan of action, and now, I had to put action behind those words. The one question that echoed so loudly in my mind that I could hear little else was, "Where do I start?"
"I'll invite people to church." (I have no church).
"I'll talk to my friends." (I don't know anyone here).
"I'll rent a building and hold services." (I have no congregation).
Then, this exchange happens...
(phone rings)
"Hey brother, how many did you have your first Sunday in Brownwood?"
"Five."
"Just your family, huh?"
"Yep."
"Well, don't worry, mission work takes time."
When you arrive at your mission field, you will feel a mixture of emotions. I can't tell you what those emotions will be because all people are different. I will tell you this. Don't fear failure in the first month. Don't be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task at hand. Don't be afraid to start, but don't feel pressured to start the second the U-Haul drives away either.
Feel free to go on to bed and get a good night's sleep that first night. In the morning, if you don't already have to report to a job, feel free to just go into town and take it in. Go to Walmart. Go to the mall. Eat out a couple of meals. Maybe even go to the movies. Put yourself in as many public places as possible over the first few days. This accomplishes a few things.
First, you will begin to get a better feel for the culture of the town. That mall might have seemed like an economic hub during your survey trips, but having spent some time there now, you might notice that it is more of a teen hangout, or a tourist destination than a fishing hole to reach the people of the town. You will find out which establishments the townspeople are passionate about. You will also get a better idea of how they think. And don't think just because you are doing mission work in your home state, or even your home area that you know the culture. You don't. Brownwood and Coleman are only 35 miles apart (spitting distance by West Texas standards), and they are as different as night and day.
The second thing this accomplishes is it breaks the ice for you. You get to relax and enjoy your new life in this new town for a little while. It's okay to do so. You have about three to fifteen years of hard labor ahead of you. Take time and smell the roses.
My approach to this is not unique. In his book, "Gleanings from the Field, or Things I Learned as a First Time Missionary," Jack Spencer, current ABA missionary to Clovis, New Mexico, also advised taking time to acclamate yourself to your new field, and to rest up. I highly recommend "Gleanings" to any prospective missionary. Bro. Spencer shares his experiences in mission work in Maryland, and gives straight forward advice on all the things the new church planting books are too cool to address.
Anyway, back on topic. After a reasonable time of acclamation, get started. I recommend starting by meeting your neighbors and befriending them. (Which is why I also recommend living in town, in a neighborhood or apartment community as opposed to buying a 365 acre ranch). Be open and honest about who you are, and what you are doing, but let it come up naturally. Be a friend. Who knows, you might be meeting your first congregants. From there, continue to make friends and connections, and combine your evangelism approach. This is where having a job comes in handy, but is not a necessity.
There is much debate about street evangelism vs. relationship evangelism vs. servant evangelism. All three have their advantages and disadvantages. Use a comprehensive approach to your field which incorporates all three. Make friends and do relationship evangelism. Go door-to-door and use street evangelism, and if someone needs help, then servant evangelism becomes profitable. And host Bible studies. You need a way to disciple those you evangelize.
If this comes together for you the way it did for me, you'll see a core group emerge in a matter of months, not years. You'll see people being drawn together by the Lord, their common experiences and their friendships. It's a beautiful thing.
Whatever you do on the field, do things the way God leads you to. The conditions on the field and his direction might very well open the door for you to use a completely different approach than I did. However, if you find yourself on the field that first day saying, "Where do I start?" then give this method a try. It worked well for me.
Friday, May 29, 2009
How-to Thursday - Associational Support
One main objection to actually doing mission work is whether the sponsoring church can afford to support the missionary. This deters many churches from sponsoring, while others are content to sponsor a missionary without contibuting to his support. Both of those approaches are wrong. A church ought to be willing to sponsor a missionary, and should contribute to that missionary's support.
Of course, supporting a missionary's financial need is a daunting task. There is his salary, money for materials so he can send out reports (paper, ink, envelopes and stamps), facilities for worship, money for incidental expenses, and you'll want to have a promotional budget as well (I know Paul didn't have a promotional budget, he didn't have a radio ministry either, but both are great tools to communicate God's message to the masses.) The sponsoring church should be willing to contribute to these needs, but few sponsoring churches have the finances to provide for all these needs (afterall, the sponsoring church also needs to pay its bills and keep the lights turned on). So, (to quote a famous philospoher) what to do about what to do?
This is where the association can step in and assist the sponsoring church. The Texas state association and the ABA have mission funds designed to assist in the payment of missionary salaries, freeing up other support to be used to aid the new mission.
The courtesy is, however, if you plan on asking the association for assistance, to support the mission efforts of the association. If you think your church may ever sponsor a missionary, the best plan is to begin the support of associational missions today. It's not required, and you'll likely never be asked how much you support state/interstate/foreign missions, but supporting the very associations you ask assistance from is a mark of integrity.
If you feel that God wants your church to request support from the ABA, or the Texas state association for your missionary, the best course of action is to contact the secretary-treasurer of that association (ABA is Randy Cloud, Texas state is Marion Reed. They are in the book). I have spoken with both men, and can tell you that both will be extremely helpful in helping you pray about mission support, and both will be happy to guide you through the process of requesting support from the association. They are your friends.
Some things to note about mission support:
1. In both associations, missionaries who request full-salary are required to be full-time missionaries and thus should carry no secular employment.
2. In both associations (ABA and Texas state), sponsoring churches of missionaries who request full-salary are required to contribute 20 percent of that missionary's salary. Basically, if the full salary is 3,000, the association will pay $2,400, while the sponsoring church is to come up with the remaining $600 (which can either be mailed directly to the missionary, or to the association. The secretary treasurers would prefer it be mailed through the association for accountability purposes. I prefer it be sent directly to the missionary (reduces steps in getting the funds to the field, but I'm okay with sending it through the association).
When most churches see that $600 (or whatever 20% is, it is actually closer to $800 in Texas), they immediately think "we can't afford that!" That's not true. The association (both ABA and Texas state) allows sponsoring churches to collect money from supporting churches to help raise that $600/month. So, the sponsoring church could contribute $150, and have three or four other churches contribute $450. There you have your 20%. These funds can easily be raised on deputation. Seriously, if a missionary can't raise $600-$800/month on deputation, then either God is not calling him to this work, or God wants him to work without support. I recommend support from sister churches send their part of the support to the sponsoring church, who will then meet the obligation to the association.
3. In Texas, if a missionary requests half-salary, the sponsoring church is not required to put up 20%, and the missionary can work a secular job. This is actually highly recommended by some, but there are pros and cons to both full and half-salary. I'll list those at another time.
In the ABA, if a missionary requests half-salary, then the sponsoring church is responsible for 20% of the amount of half-salary, and the missionary can work part time.
4. Both the Texas state and ABA associations have deadlines for requesting mission support, which is usually 60 days prior to the messenger meeting. Do your best to honor this deadline. If you don't, your missionary will likely face additional scrutiny on the floor of the meeting and may be rejected.
5. Associational fund balances are healthy, but heavily burdened. For this reason, it is important for the sponsoring church and missionary to see associational support as being a short-term solution. It's not a long-term salary or a retirement fund. It is financial relief to get missionaries on the field and churches planted. I recommend planning on weening yourself off of associational support within three years.
Questions, complaints, comments? Post them here or email me.
Of course, supporting a missionary's financial need is a daunting task. There is his salary, money for materials so he can send out reports (paper, ink, envelopes and stamps), facilities for worship, money for incidental expenses, and you'll want to have a promotional budget as well (I know Paul didn't have a promotional budget, he didn't have a radio ministry either, but both are great tools to communicate God's message to the masses.) The sponsoring church should be willing to contribute to these needs, but few sponsoring churches have the finances to provide for all these needs (afterall, the sponsoring church also needs to pay its bills and keep the lights turned on). So, (to quote a famous philospoher) what to do about what to do?
This is where the association can step in and assist the sponsoring church. The Texas state association and the ABA have mission funds designed to assist in the payment of missionary salaries, freeing up other support to be used to aid the new mission.
The courtesy is, however, if you plan on asking the association for assistance, to support the mission efforts of the association. If you think your church may ever sponsor a missionary, the best plan is to begin the support of associational missions today. It's not required, and you'll likely never be asked how much you support state/interstate/foreign missions, but supporting the very associations you ask assistance from is a mark of integrity.
If you feel that God wants your church to request support from the ABA, or the Texas state association for your missionary, the best course of action is to contact the secretary-treasurer of that association (ABA is Randy Cloud, Texas state is Marion Reed. They are in the book). I have spoken with both men, and can tell you that both will be extremely helpful in helping you pray about mission support, and both will be happy to guide you through the process of requesting support from the association. They are your friends.
Some things to note about mission support:
1. In both associations, missionaries who request full-salary are required to be full-time missionaries and thus should carry no secular employment.
2. In both associations (ABA and Texas state), sponsoring churches of missionaries who request full-salary are required to contribute 20 percent of that missionary's salary. Basically, if the full salary is 3,000, the association will pay $2,400, while the sponsoring church is to come up with the remaining $600 (which can either be mailed directly to the missionary, or to the association. The secretary treasurers would prefer it be mailed through the association for accountability purposes. I prefer it be sent directly to the missionary (reduces steps in getting the funds to the field, but I'm okay with sending it through the association).
When most churches see that $600 (or whatever 20% is, it is actually closer to $800 in Texas), they immediately think "we can't afford that!" That's not true. The association (both ABA and Texas state) allows sponsoring churches to collect money from supporting churches to help raise that $600/month. So, the sponsoring church could contribute $150, and have three or four other churches contribute $450. There you have your 20%. These funds can easily be raised on deputation. Seriously, if a missionary can't raise $600-$800/month on deputation, then either God is not calling him to this work, or God wants him to work without support. I recommend support from sister churches send their part of the support to the sponsoring church, who will then meet the obligation to the association.
3. In Texas, if a missionary requests half-salary, the sponsoring church is not required to put up 20%, and the missionary can work a secular job. This is actually highly recommended by some, but there are pros and cons to both full and half-salary. I'll list those at another time.
In the ABA, if a missionary requests half-salary, then the sponsoring church is responsible for 20% of the amount of half-salary, and the missionary can work part time.
4. Both the Texas state and ABA associations have deadlines for requesting mission support, which is usually 60 days prior to the messenger meeting. Do your best to honor this deadline. If you don't, your missionary will likely face additional scrutiny on the floor of the meeting and may be rejected.
5. Associational fund balances are healthy, but heavily burdened. For this reason, it is important for the sponsoring church and missionary to see associational support as being a short-term solution. It's not a long-term salary or a retirement fund. It is financial relief to get missionaries on the field and churches planted. I recommend planning on weening yourself off of associational support within three years.
Questions, complaints, comments? Post them here or email me.
Thursday, May 21, 2009
How-to Thursday - Deputation
There are a lot of questions surrounding deputation of which a new missionary is likely to get a lot of answers. The following are my views on deputation. While I don't claim to be an expert on deputation procedures, I will say that Mission: Brownwood benefitted well from deputation.
1. Do deputation- There is a growing mindset that missionaries shouldn't do deputation because Paul didn't do deputation. "You should just step out on faith and know God will provide," they say. God will provide, and your needs will be met, but there's more to deputation than just fundraising.
I found deputation to be very encouraging toward me, my family and my work. It was very encouraging to be able to share my burden and calling with sister churches, and have them tell me they were praying for me. Some even told me that they felt the Lord's presence assuring them that the Brownwood work would be successful. I can not tell you how encouraging it is to hear preachers tell you that they know in their hearts God will bless your work. To this day, those words keep me going. It was encouraging to my wife to know that so many are behind us. It was encouraging to my children, as traveling on SOME deputation appointments gave them the sense of how important this work is.
I also think deputation is encouraging to the churches you visit. It is encouraging to know that men are answering the call and going to new fields to start new work. In a day when the Lord's churches are becoming more isolated, it is easy to become discourged, thinking that nothing's happening and the church is becoming one of the last true churches. Churches can be encouraged by deputation, being brought into close fellowship with God's people and being encouraged that the work of the Lord presses on. I say this, having been a pastor. I felt encouraged by the missionaries who visited us. I don't know if I personally was encouraging to the churches I visited, but I do know that missionaries do encourage churches.
As for fundraising, I think it could be shown through statistical studies that deputation is one of the most effective ways of raising support for a missionary. Sending letters will net some response, as will speaking at associational events. Having a sponsoring church or pastor promote you is helpful as well, but churches who get to meet the missionary tend to be more motivated toward supporting him.
2. Go, even if they don't have the money. While on deputation, occasionally a pastor will give a disclaimer prior to your accepting his invitation that his church is struggling financially and probably will not be able to become a monthly supporter. This pastor is doing this as a courtesy to you, because he understands how valuable your deputation time is. I say, this pastor and his church are worth your time even if they don't have money.
I remember being pastor of Denson Springs. I would have done anything to see Denson Springs be as mission-minded in their giving as they were years before I got there. I also wanted to see them become missional (being actively involved in mission work, especially on the associational level). The problem was our funds were low, and Denson Springs had enjoyed very few visits from missionaries in the recent years. Most that they had been supporting hadn't even been sending them reports (that's a topic I will address in a future issue.) So, I gave the "We have no money" disclaimer several times. I am thankful for missionaries like Phil Gavila and B.R. Singh, who took the time to visit our church knowing that we were broke. Bro. Singh especially was good for the fellowship. He really opened the church's eyes toward foreign missions. Bro. Gavila encouraged the church toward local evangelism and preached on the dangers of false professions. He encouraged us to stay true to the scriptures. There were others, but these two are in the forefront of my mind.
Later, we held a state mission rally, which was attended by several of the state salaried missionaries. They gave great reports, and the church went on to become a supporter of state missions. Without the encouragement of these missionaries, I would have had a harder time encouraging the church to support missions, even though we could barely cover our expenses.
Today, Denson Springs not only supports most, if not all, phases of missions, they are a strong supporter of Mission Brownwood as well. All that happened after I left.
3. Be willing to pay your own deputation expenses. Most churches you speak at will offer you an honorarium or love offering for coming out to speak to them. Go ahead and use those funds to pay for your travel expenses. However, do try to avoid burdening your sponsoring church and mission fund on deputation travel expenses. You'll need that money when you get to the field. It is important to remember that wells run dry. Where do you want your finances spent... on the field getting the work going? Or at the Northcentral Expressway Raddisson?
This may mean keeping your secular job while traveling all night over the weekend to do deputation. I did it. It can be done. It's one of those sacrifices we make.
On the other hand, yoru situation may require that your sponsoring church or mission fund pick up the tab for your deputation time. I'm not saying it's a sin to live on mission funds while on deputation... I'm just saying it's best in the long run if you can avoid it.
4. Use common sense with the family. Deputation trips can be long and stressful. The conditions of travel can upend even the most well behaved kids. Having children act up on a visit can torpedo any chance that the church you visited will become a supporter.
When I was on deputation, I got someone to watch our kids most of the time while my wife and I traveled together. There were visits where I took the kids, but those were on visits where (a) I knew the church and the people, (b) There were local attractions that I thought would be good for the kids or (c) if I felt led to take them. An example of scenario (a) would be when I took the kids to Mt. Herman in Center. They knew my kids and had seen them at their worst. (The church bought them Christmas gifts back in 2004, and some of the members had even encouraged the kids to play with them in the afternoon service. Good people, good fun, nerve racking on a 1st year TBI student.) The second visit was a lot more orderly, but still, they knew the kids and enjoyed the time with them. We also took them to White Rock, if I'm not mistaken. Scenario (b) would be the time we took the kids to San Antonio to see the Alamo and Riverwalk after visiting with Landmark MBC in Floresville. However, we abstained from taking the kids on most of our trips to West Texas, as 8 hours in the car would do more harm than good. Most of the time, Jessica and I traveled alone. It was really good for our marriage.
5. Promote. Send out letters annoucing your call and availability to every church that you think you could conceivably visit. I sent letters to every church listed in the Texas state minutes book, and some to Arkansas and Louisiana. I didn't send letters to California, because (a) I wouldn't be able to make the trip and (b) I didn't see the Californian churches getting excited about a rural Texas mission (they have their own fields to work). That might not have been the best attitude, but it's what I did.
I got some appointments from those letters. I also promoted my work by use of this blog, attending associational meetings, and by posting reports and announcements on ABANews.info (which back then was an email service). I got several deputation appointments from those and one church picked us up without having to hear us. Still, my calendar wasn't full. So, I got my state minutes book and called several pastors. Many were glad to hear from me and promptly offered me a Sunday. Some turned me down. Some may have even been offended. Still, I got lots of invitations over the phone this way. IT IS OKAY TO CALL! Don't worry about whether or not you will offend people. If you go about your work worrying about offending people, you have doomed yourself to failure.
6. Courtesy. No church will excoriate you for using the KJV. No church will be offended if you wear a coat and a tie. No church will be offended by your reverence. Some churches will be offended if you use a modern translation (some may even stop you from preaching.) Some will be offended if you show up in causal wear. Regardless of how you feel about these issues, it is best to take B.M. Bogard's "Two chances over one" and err on the side of caution. Use the KJV, even if you preferr the NASB. Paul said he becomes all things to all men so he can win some. If the KJV would be the only dividing line between you and the brethren you visit, use the KJV. It is God's Word, and it is not flawed (as some would state it is) and trying to convert everyone to a new translation is not really all that beneficial.
Wear a coat and tie. Self explanatory. Remember good manners. Please, thank you, send a thank-you card, and remember, "Attitude of grattitude." You're happy just to be able to share you calling.
Also, be courteous of their time. You don't have to share every single detail of your work in order to share the work with them. Main thing, share your calling, your passion, and if you have any yet, share the success stories of the people you are working with (new converts and so on.) But you don't have to go on about how big the property is, how much the building costs, demographics, population statistics, city history, culture, etc (unless you are a foreign missionary... then that helps us fall in love with the people.) I mean, population is important, as are demographics. So, say that the town has 50,000 people, with 27% being Hispanic and 43% being African American with a median household income of $42,000 annually, but number of households, children under 12, etc etc etc... you can go overboard with data. Building and land needs are important, but you shouldn't spend more than a minute or two on that either. Cover the basics, share your passion, then take questions. Then, preach, but be concientious of time.
7. Be honest. I remember one pastor interviewing me in private after an appointment, because the church wanted to support me, but wanted to make sure "I was planting a church just like theirs." I have strong feelings about that attitude I will not share here at this time. He asked me several questions. (1) Was I KJV only? (2) Did I believe in integrated churches, or did I believe in racial separation. There were others. I use KJV. I do believe in literal modern translations, but have yet to find one that matches the quality of the KJV. So, I use KJV. I encourage others to do so as well. (2) I believe that God is not a respector of persons, therefore it is not His will that we artificially segregate ourselves on the basis of race. The doctrine of racial separation is unGodly, in my opinion, and I find it troubling that it is a prevalent doctrine in some circles. Needless to say, I failed both questions and they do not support me. That's fine. If they want me to conform to their doctrines, I don't want their support.
If a church demands that you be exactly like them in order to be supported, and you are not exactly like them, be honest about that. If you mislead them and take their support, it will come back to haunt you. There are several points of fellowship that you need to be prepared to answer for... KJV Onlyism, Racial Separation, worship music (hymns vs. contemporary music), Awana vs. Discovery, Church-planting vs. traditional mission structure, and so on. Be prepared, know what your convictions are, and be willing to express them in a candid, but respectful way if asked.
8. Keep it short. Don't be on deputation indefinitely. From the time you land a sponsoring church, or even before then if God so leads, set a departure date and stick to it. That is stepping out on faith. Deputation is a blessed time, but spend too much time on deputation and you will find yourself discouraged. I spent 7 months on deputation. A good time frame will be anywhere from 7-12 months for state and interstate missions, and 12-18 months for foreign missions.
Finally, if you are a missionary and you are reading this post, and you did things differently, or if you disagree with me, please don't take it personal. My goal is not to set policy or mission law, but rather to share my experiences, successes and failures in hopes of encouraging others who might be considering mission work. If you have better advice to offer please do. Feel free to add your comments.
Thank you for reading, thank you for considering the Lord's work, and thank you for doing the Lord's work.
Next week, we'll discuss associational support.
1. Do deputation- There is a growing mindset that missionaries shouldn't do deputation because Paul didn't do deputation. "You should just step out on faith and know God will provide," they say. God will provide, and your needs will be met, but there's more to deputation than just fundraising.
I found deputation to be very encouraging toward me, my family and my work. It was very encouraging to be able to share my burden and calling with sister churches, and have them tell me they were praying for me. Some even told me that they felt the Lord's presence assuring them that the Brownwood work would be successful. I can not tell you how encouraging it is to hear preachers tell you that they know in their hearts God will bless your work. To this day, those words keep me going. It was encouraging to my wife to know that so many are behind us. It was encouraging to my children, as traveling on SOME deputation appointments gave them the sense of how important this work is.
I also think deputation is encouraging to the churches you visit. It is encouraging to know that men are answering the call and going to new fields to start new work. In a day when the Lord's churches are becoming more isolated, it is easy to become discourged, thinking that nothing's happening and the church is becoming one of the last true churches. Churches can be encouraged by deputation, being brought into close fellowship with God's people and being encouraged that the work of the Lord presses on. I say this, having been a pastor. I felt encouraged by the missionaries who visited us. I don't know if I personally was encouraging to the churches I visited, but I do know that missionaries do encourage churches.
As for fundraising, I think it could be shown through statistical studies that deputation is one of the most effective ways of raising support for a missionary. Sending letters will net some response, as will speaking at associational events. Having a sponsoring church or pastor promote you is helpful as well, but churches who get to meet the missionary tend to be more motivated toward supporting him.
2. Go, even if they don't have the money. While on deputation, occasionally a pastor will give a disclaimer prior to your accepting his invitation that his church is struggling financially and probably will not be able to become a monthly supporter. This pastor is doing this as a courtesy to you, because he understands how valuable your deputation time is. I say, this pastor and his church are worth your time even if they don't have money.
I remember being pastor of Denson Springs. I would have done anything to see Denson Springs be as mission-minded in their giving as they were years before I got there. I also wanted to see them become missional (being actively involved in mission work, especially on the associational level). The problem was our funds were low, and Denson Springs had enjoyed very few visits from missionaries in the recent years. Most that they had been supporting hadn't even been sending them reports (that's a topic I will address in a future issue.) So, I gave the "We have no money" disclaimer several times. I am thankful for missionaries like Phil Gavila and B.R. Singh, who took the time to visit our church knowing that we were broke. Bro. Singh especially was good for the fellowship. He really opened the church's eyes toward foreign missions. Bro. Gavila encouraged the church toward local evangelism and preached on the dangers of false professions. He encouraged us to stay true to the scriptures. There were others, but these two are in the forefront of my mind.
Later, we held a state mission rally, which was attended by several of the state salaried missionaries. They gave great reports, and the church went on to become a supporter of state missions. Without the encouragement of these missionaries, I would have had a harder time encouraging the church to support missions, even though we could barely cover our expenses.
Today, Denson Springs not only supports most, if not all, phases of missions, they are a strong supporter of Mission Brownwood as well. All that happened after I left.
3. Be willing to pay your own deputation expenses. Most churches you speak at will offer you an honorarium or love offering for coming out to speak to them. Go ahead and use those funds to pay for your travel expenses. However, do try to avoid burdening your sponsoring church and mission fund on deputation travel expenses. You'll need that money when you get to the field. It is important to remember that wells run dry. Where do you want your finances spent... on the field getting the work going? Or at the Northcentral Expressway Raddisson?
This may mean keeping your secular job while traveling all night over the weekend to do deputation. I did it. It can be done. It's one of those sacrifices we make.
On the other hand, yoru situation may require that your sponsoring church or mission fund pick up the tab for your deputation time. I'm not saying it's a sin to live on mission funds while on deputation... I'm just saying it's best in the long run if you can avoid it.
4. Use common sense with the family. Deputation trips can be long and stressful. The conditions of travel can upend even the most well behaved kids. Having children act up on a visit can torpedo any chance that the church you visited will become a supporter.
When I was on deputation, I got someone to watch our kids most of the time while my wife and I traveled together. There were visits where I took the kids, but those were on visits where (a) I knew the church and the people, (b) There were local attractions that I thought would be good for the kids or (c) if I felt led to take them. An example of scenario (a) would be when I took the kids to Mt. Herman in Center. They knew my kids and had seen them at their worst. (The church bought them Christmas gifts back in 2004, and some of the members had even encouraged the kids to play with them in the afternoon service. Good people, good fun, nerve racking on a 1st year TBI student.) The second visit was a lot more orderly, but still, they knew the kids and enjoyed the time with them. We also took them to White Rock, if I'm not mistaken. Scenario (b) would be the time we took the kids to San Antonio to see the Alamo and Riverwalk after visiting with Landmark MBC in Floresville. However, we abstained from taking the kids on most of our trips to West Texas, as 8 hours in the car would do more harm than good. Most of the time, Jessica and I traveled alone. It was really good for our marriage.
5. Promote. Send out letters annoucing your call and availability to every church that you think you could conceivably visit. I sent letters to every church listed in the Texas state minutes book, and some to Arkansas and Louisiana. I didn't send letters to California, because (a) I wouldn't be able to make the trip and (b) I didn't see the Californian churches getting excited about a rural Texas mission (they have their own fields to work). That might not have been the best attitude, but it's what I did.
I got some appointments from those letters. I also promoted my work by use of this blog, attending associational meetings, and by posting reports and announcements on ABANews.info (which back then was an email service). I got several deputation appointments from those and one church picked us up without having to hear us. Still, my calendar wasn't full. So, I got my state minutes book and called several pastors. Many were glad to hear from me and promptly offered me a Sunday. Some turned me down. Some may have even been offended. Still, I got lots of invitations over the phone this way. IT IS OKAY TO CALL! Don't worry about whether or not you will offend people. If you go about your work worrying about offending people, you have doomed yourself to failure.
6. Courtesy. No church will excoriate you for using the KJV. No church will be offended if you wear a coat and a tie. No church will be offended by your reverence. Some churches will be offended if you use a modern translation (some may even stop you from preaching.) Some will be offended if you show up in causal wear. Regardless of how you feel about these issues, it is best to take B.M. Bogard's "Two chances over one" and err on the side of caution. Use the KJV, even if you preferr the NASB. Paul said he becomes all things to all men so he can win some. If the KJV would be the only dividing line between you and the brethren you visit, use the KJV. It is God's Word, and it is not flawed (as some would state it is) and trying to convert everyone to a new translation is not really all that beneficial.
Wear a coat and tie. Self explanatory. Remember good manners. Please, thank you, send a thank-you card, and remember, "Attitude of grattitude." You're happy just to be able to share you calling.
Also, be courteous of their time. You don't have to share every single detail of your work in order to share the work with them. Main thing, share your calling, your passion, and if you have any yet, share the success stories of the people you are working with (new converts and so on.) But you don't have to go on about how big the property is, how much the building costs, demographics, population statistics, city history, culture, etc (unless you are a foreign missionary... then that helps us fall in love with the people.) I mean, population is important, as are demographics. So, say that the town has 50,000 people, with 27% being Hispanic and 43% being African American with a median household income of $42,000 annually, but number of households, children under 12, etc etc etc... you can go overboard with data. Building and land needs are important, but you shouldn't spend more than a minute or two on that either. Cover the basics, share your passion, then take questions. Then, preach, but be concientious of time.
7. Be honest. I remember one pastor interviewing me in private after an appointment, because the church wanted to support me, but wanted to make sure "I was planting a church just like theirs." I have strong feelings about that attitude I will not share here at this time. He asked me several questions. (1) Was I KJV only? (2) Did I believe in integrated churches, or did I believe in racial separation. There were others. I use KJV. I do believe in literal modern translations, but have yet to find one that matches the quality of the KJV. So, I use KJV. I encourage others to do so as well. (2) I believe that God is not a respector of persons, therefore it is not His will that we artificially segregate ourselves on the basis of race. The doctrine of racial separation is unGodly, in my opinion, and I find it troubling that it is a prevalent doctrine in some circles. Needless to say, I failed both questions and they do not support me. That's fine. If they want me to conform to their doctrines, I don't want their support.
If a church demands that you be exactly like them in order to be supported, and you are not exactly like them, be honest about that. If you mislead them and take their support, it will come back to haunt you. There are several points of fellowship that you need to be prepared to answer for... KJV Onlyism, Racial Separation, worship music (hymns vs. contemporary music), Awana vs. Discovery, Church-planting vs. traditional mission structure, and so on. Be prepared, know what your convictions are, and be willing to express them in a candid, but respectful way if asked.
8. Keep it short. Don't be on deputation indefinitely. From the time you land a sponsoring church, or even before then if God so leads, set a departure date and stick to it. That is stepping out on faith. Deputation is a blessed time, but spend too much time on deputation and you will find yourself discouraged. I spent 7 months on deputation. A good time frame will be anywhere from 7-12 months for state and interstate missions, and 12-18 months for foreign missions.
Finally, if you are a missionary and you are reading this post, and you did things differently, or if you disagree with me, please don't take it personal. My goal is not to set policy or mission law, but rather to share my experiences, successes and failures in hopes of encouraging others who might be considering mission work. If you have better advice to offer please do. Feel free to add your comments.
Thank you for reading, thank you for considering the Lord's work, and thank you for doing the Lord's work.
Next week, we'll discuss associational support.
Thursday, May 14, 2009
How-To Thursday - Mission Administration
For the sake of alleviating my already hectic Tuesday Schedule, the "How-To" segment of this blog will move to Thursday, thus creating "How-To Thursday."
Once the sponsoring church/missionary agreement has been reached, a structure for the administration of the mission needs to be set up. The sponsoring church becomes the lifeline for the missionary, and the administrative structure of that lifeline needs to be arranged to keep the lifeline connected to the missionary. If that lifeline from the sponsoring church ever gets severed due to bad communication, or disorganization, the results can be devastating for the missionary. The following are my recommendations.
1. Appoint a missions treasurer. The missions treasurer needs to be a responsible person who has a track record of keeping up with his position in the church. The missions treasurer will be responsible for depositing the support checks that come in to the sponsoring church, keeping up with the account balance, and making sure that the missionary gets the funds in a timely manner. The missions treasurer needs to be one that will be faithful in their attendance, and one who is accessible to the missionary. The missionary will need to be able to communicate with the missions treasurer frequently so he knows what financial resources he has, therefore making it easier to plan his work. Plus, the treasurer will have to be able to provide a report to the missionary at the end of the month so he can include it on his monthly report.
With Mission: Brownwood, I am blessed to have a good missions treasurer. She stays on top of the finances, deposits the checks as soon as she gets them, keeps a running balance of what is in the bank, reports to me consistently on what has come in and what we have, and makes the funds readily accessible. I can use those funds on a moment's notice if need be, and all I have to do is report back to her. It's a great set-up that has worked great.
2. Appoint a missions committee. If the sponsoring church is going to truly be behind the missionary, that missionary is going to have to be able to communicate with the sponsoring church. With that in mind, I think it is very important to have a missions committee. The missionary can communicate with each committee member via email and telephone, and the committee can then (a) meet and decide what needs to be done (if anything) to meet the missionary's need, or (b) tell as many people in the church of what is happening on the mission field so that the church can move to action under the leadership of the Holy Spirit. My experience tells me that an informed church will act to support the missionary's needs almost all the time if the missionary is truly carrying out the work of the Lord.
Some would rather not have a committee, choosing rather to make the pastor of the sponsoring church the mode of communication between the missionary and sponsoring church. This leaves the missionary vulnerable for a number of reasons.
(1) The pastor who is in the pulpit now may very well be a great missions-minded pastor who truly wants to support the missionary his church sponsors, however, if he leaves, the next pastor may be a jerk who sees the missionary as being a drain on church resources that could very well fund his salary and reimbursements. Or the next pastor may be more concerned with building a mega-church rather than supporting the missionary. As a mission-minded pastor, the right thing for you to do is put in a support structure around your missionary that another pastor can not easily undo.
(2) The sponsoring pastor, as great a man as he may be, is still human and may inadequately communicate the missionary's need to the congregation. More voices mean a better vision is being cast.
(3) The mission work needs to belong to the church. If the pastor is the go-between, then the work becomes something that belongs to the pastor and missionary and the church never truly gets involved outside of approving an expenditure or two.
I believe the missions committee should consist of the pastor, the missions treasurer, (if there is an associate pastor in charge of missions or outreach, he needs to be on the committee), the church treasurer (to advise on funds if they are needed from the general fund), and three-to-five laymen.
3. Encourage support to be sent through the sponsoring church. When it comes to state/interstate missions, there is not a whole lot of difference between getting money sent straight to the field and having it sent through the sponsoring church. For me, it is more convenient to have my support sent through Rocky Springs so that my missions treasurer can keep track of it, and all I have to worry about is the usual monthly expenditures and reporting. Plus, it makes it easier at the end of the year to calculate my taxes.
However, for a foreign missionary, especially one in hostile territory, the sponsoring church will be the best equipped to get the money to the field while minimizing "money handling charges" and "conversion fees." Plus, in some countries, putting the title "missionary" or "brother" on an envelope or check can result in that missionary being arrested and even killed. All it takes is one treasurer having an off day to cause problems. So, with that in mind, it's best to send the money to the sponsoring church and trust the sponsoring church to do what is right. (This paragraph is all opinion on my part, and I welcome input from foreign missionaries with more insight on this issue, even if it disagrees with what I have written. I am here to promote mission work, not push my agenda.)
Not all mission work has to be organized after this pattern. In fact, I am far from being an expert (I've only been a sponsoring pastor once, and a missionary once. Some of this information I've learned from my own mistakes. Other parts of this post I learned from a Macedonian Missions Seminar, other parts I've learned from my successes, and others from watching other successful missionaries.) Do what fits best for your situation and what God calls you to do. God bless you.
Next week, we'll talk deputation.
Once the sponsoring church/missionary agreement has been reached, a structure for the administration of the mission needs to be set up. The sponsoring church becomes the lifeline for the missionary, and the administrative structure of that lifeline needs to be arranged to keep the lifeline connected to the missionary. If that lifeline from the sponsoring church ever gets severed due to bad communication, or disorganization, the results can be devastating for the missionary. The following are my recommendations.
1. Appoint a missions treasurer. The missions treasurer needs to be a responsible person who has a track record of keeping up with his position in the church. The missions treasurer will be responsible for depositing the support checks that come in to the sponsoring church, keeping up with the account balance, and making sure that the missionary gets the funds in a timely manner. The missions treasurer needs to be one that will be faithful in their attendance, and one who is accessible to the missionary. The missionary will need to be able to communicate with the missions treasurer frequently so he knows what financial resources he has, therefore making it easier to plan his work. Plus, the treasurer will have to be able to provide a report to the missionary at the end of the month so he can include it on his monthly report.
With Mission: Brownwood, I am blessed to have a good missions treasurer. She stays on top of the finances, deposits the checks as soon as she gets them, keeps a running balance of what is in the bank, reports to me consistently on what has come in and what we have, and makes the funds readily accessible. I can use those funds on a moment's notice if need be, and all I have to do is report back to her. It's a great set-up that has worked great.
2. Appoint a missions committee. If the sponsoring church is going to truly be behind the missionary, that missionary is going to have to be able to communicate with the sponsoring church. With that in mind, I think it is very important to have a missions committee. The missionary can communicate with each committee member via email and telephone, and the committee can then (a) meet and decide what needs to be done (if anything) to meet the missionary's need, or (b) tell as many people in the church of what is happening on the mission field so that the church can move to action under the leadership of the Holy Spirit. My experience tells me that an informed church will act to support the missionary's needs almost all the time if the missionary is truly carrying out the work of the Lord.
Some would rather not have a committee, choosing rather to make the pastor of the sponsoring church the mode of communication between the missionary and sponsoring church. This leaves the missionary vulnerable for a number of reasons.
(1) The pastor who is in the pulpit now may very well be a great missions-minded pastor who truly wants to support the missionary his church sponsors, however, if he leaves, the next pastor may be a jerk who sees the missionary as being a drain on church resources that could very well fund his salary and reimbursements. Or the next pastor may be more concerned with building a mega-church rather than supporting the missionary. As a mission-minded pastor, the right thing for you to do is put in a support structure around your missionary that another pastor can not easily undo.
(2) The sponsoring pastor, as great a man as he may be, is still human and may inadequately communicate the missionary's need to the congregation. More voices mean a better vision is being cast.
(3) The mission work needs to belong to the church. If the pastor is the go-between, then the work becomes something that belongs to the pastor and missionary and the church never truly gets involved outside of approving an expenditure or two.
I believe the missions committee should consist of the pastor, the missions treasurer, (if there is an associate pastor in charge of missions or outreach, he needs to be on the committee), the church treasurer (to advise on funds if they are needed from the general fund), and three-to-five laymen.
3. Encourage support to be sent through the sponsoring church. When it comes to state/interstate missions, there is not a whole lot of difference between getting money sent straight to the field and having it sent through the sponsoring church. For me, it is more convenient to have my support sent through Rocky Springs so that my missions treasurer can keep track of it, and all I have to worry about is the usual monthly expenditures and reporting. Plus, it makes it easier at the end of the year to calculate my taxes.
However, for a foreign missionary, especially one in hostile territory, the sponsoring church will be the best equipped to get the money to the field while minimizing "money handling charges" and "conversion fees." Plus, in some countries, putting the title "missionary" or "brother" on an envelope or check can result in that missionary being arrested and even killed. All it takes is one treasurer having an off day to cause problems. So, with that in mind, it's best to send the money to the sponsoring church and trust the sponsoring church to do what is right. (This paragraph is all opinion on my part, and I welcome input from foreign missionaries with more insight on this issue, even if it disagrees with what I have written. I am here to promote mission work, not push my agenda.)
Not all mission work has to be organized after this pattern. In fact, I am far from being an expert (I've only been a sponsoring pastor once, and a missionary once. Some of this information I've learned from my own mistakes. Other parts of this post I learned from a Macedonian Missions Seminar, other parts I've learned from my successes, and others from watching other successful missionaries.) Do what fits best for your situation and what God calls you to do. God bless you.
Next week, we'll talk deputation.
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